THE DEBT interview with SAM WORTHINGTON

COVERED BY: BRENDA MEYER

LISTEN TO INTERVIEW

What kind of emotions is David carrying and does he have survivor's guilt?
I think there's a guilt, carrying a weight and a burden, and the ramifications of your actions. Which we always deal with anyway, but in this it's, as you know, hard to keep something like that secret and to live with that for the rest of your life. Can you get away with it, and when it does bite you in the butt, how do you handle it? I talked to Ciarán about it and he says the thing is, [David] becomes more damaged as an older man. See, you can't start off damaged - otherwise there's no arc, but he's definitely got it inside him. Marton's character (Stephen) actually says, this is what's happened to him, you know, with his family, and he holds it in a lot. But you've got to have some sort of idealism as a character (in order) for him to get tainted by what happens, and that leads him down to being more damaged.

On how he and Ciarán approached David, and if they worked together and watched each other's performances:
Yeah, he watched mine. We didn't talk that much - Tom and Marton talked a lot, but every actor's process is different. Me and Ciarán just met, I said, look, here's how I'm looking at him, he's a ticking time bomb, he's the one that's the quiet one of the group but has the more passion, therefore, when he kind of does what he does to Vogel, that starts him on this downward spiral out. Or, even when they can't get [Vogel] out, can't finish the mission, that's when he spirals out. And that's all we really talked about, and then Ciarán went and watched some rushes and took it from there. And I see little things that Ciarán does that I did that I find fascinating, just, like tiny movements of my head - I've got a very distinct head movement and he can pop it in - and then there's something about his soul that I wanted David to be when he grew up. But you don't ever tell an actor how to play a part, he just did that.

On working with Marton and Jessica and shooting the house scenes:
I think the way we shot it - me and Marton and Jessica, I think the world of her, I think she's the best actress out there and she's very stage trained, so am I, so is Marton, John Madden's got a background in it, so when we went to shoot the scenes in the house, we actually shot them in order, like on a stage, so it felt like a little play. So, by the time you finished the house stuff, you wanted to get out of there, you were like rats trying to crawl to get out. Also, on the stage, you kind of know what someone's bringing to it, the rehearsal period is longer, so we had a pretty intensive rehearsal period, and you kind of bounce off each other if that's what you're used to. And it's a bit different from film actors - they definitely have a different way of breaking down scripts and breaking down scenes. And John's very clever at utilizing the talents for the part and putting them into the work, so I had a great time working with both of them.

On working with Jessica twice now:
On The Debt, we're both young lovers - or scared, trying to be young lovers at the beginnings of a blossoming romance, and we became friends outside of that. And in Texas Killing Fields, we're at the end of a relationship, we're divorced, and I thought, we need a film where we actually have a real relationship. (laughs) She's so far advanced. It's not about her, it's about the work, it's about the character. It's not about vanity and how big her damn trailer is or anything like that. She's got a background in theatre - when I met her, she'd worked with Al Pacino, she'd worked with Ralph Fiennes in Coriolanus, she's worked with Terrance Malick. Her knowledge of film is getting broader and bigger. I came in and wanted to learn off her. She's one of these actresses that, whether she means it or not, you want to do better, you don't slack, you don't drop that ball. And I appreciate working with someone that challenges me, where at the end of the day, I'm banging my head against the table going, I wish I could have done better. Because that's how good she is.

On learning Krav Maga:
Yeah, they trained us up on it - I actually find any kind of physical action quite easy, to be honest. But I found it interesting that it's an attack form of defense. It's not actually defense - it's like, if five people are going at you, you hit for five, and you might get struck in the head about four times, but it doesn't matter. If you're taking on a guy with a knife, chances are, you're gonna get knifed, but the way krav maga is, it's a forward thinking action. So, if you get hit with a knife, it doesn't matter because it means you may be able to take down your opponent. And that, to me, is also a way of kind of how Israelis think - it's a forward way of thinking, there's no defense. What they believe in, they believe it's correct, and they go straight for it. So, I kind of found that kind of parallel interesting.

On filming in Budapest:
It's the seventh time I've been to Budapest, but I like it. It's like a bigger Prague. But whereas Prague has been untouched, Budapest is now starting to get a Western influence. And it's freakin' cold. (laughs)

On how he got the part:
I was doing Terminator at the time in Albuquerque in the middle of nowhere, and John flew all the way out there to talk to me, and I thought that any man that's willing to fly to fucking Albuquerque, I said, I'll sign on, I don't care what it is. (laughs) But he gave a really nice sell and he's an eloquent man. He's a great storyteller, his work is quite diverse, which I find interesting. That was quite an easy sell, he said, this is what I want you to do, I want you to be a part of it, whaddaya reckon and I said why not.

On if he was familiar with the original Israeli film, Ha-Hov, before shooting:
I'd actually watched it before - before the remake [idea] had even come to life - so I'd seen it already. But I didn't go and read into it. I thought...there's bits in the original movie that are a bit...the performances are a bit...it's not as complex. It's: David is this person, Stephen is this person, so you know...some movies you might kind of revisit to get influenced by, others might taint what you want to do, so I stayed away from it. There's some gaping plot holes in the original which we found that you just ratchet and tighten - like, what was David doing for 30 years, that was my first question. Was he just sitting and crying in a room for 30 years? I thought he should go and look for the dude, so we put that into the script, having that character actually try to find Vogel.

On how they prepared for the scenes with Vogel:
You just come in knowing what you're doing with someone like Jesper. And John said to me, what are you thinking, and I told him, and he said, just keep it contained, keep it really contained. Don't do fuck all, basically. Just keep it in there, whatever you're feeling, whatever this guy is attacking you with, don't move a muscle. Because you do stoic better than any other fucking actor, so we'd like to exploit it and not see you get burned for it, for once, which I commended.

On working with Jesper Christensen:
He's got that very Danish background like (Clash of the Titans co-star) Mads Mikkelson where he'll get real Method on you. There's a different type of Method where you're sitting there covered in porridge and sitting in your own urine, it's not something I'm really prone to doing, but if it helps Jesper, it helps Jesper. But he's a great guy. You don't really stay in character, but you find that any kind of character permeates through you, so by the time it came time to leave the house to go to Budapest, we were ready to knock the whole place down, which kind of helps. It was kind of claustrophobic. We'd been in there for five weeks, we'd gone from playing happy family to this guy shitting and peeing on the floor. And we had to be in there, so the reactions are true and that's what I liked about it. You wanted out.

Biggest struggle with the role:
The accent. I always struggle with accents. But that's something you keep at, that's your job and the process. And it's a weird thing, because we're talking a German dialect with an Israeli accent with my Australian accent. We kind of went for a universal sound that's not exactly what it would be, but we tried to make Helen sound the same as Jessica and me sound the same as Marton.

On fighting Holocaust fatigue in movies, and how this one's different:
I don't think it hammers you over the head. It's just a taut thriller, that's what it is, and also about the repercussions of your actions. Whether it was a Nazi war criminal or an African drug lord criminal or any kind of event that ripples through your life, that's what we're aiming for and I don't think we've said this is a Holocaust revenge movie. To me, it's like a 1970s thriller.

On making films for an adult audience:
I don't think about it. I look at a movie - whether it's Avatar or The Debt - and think hopefully it finds an audience. I'm not thinking on if it goes for 15 year-old kids or a 45 year-old man. I'm thinking hopefully this is a good story.

On what he's learned from John Madden:
He has an ease with direction. He lets you do your work, he trusts you. He's hired you for a reason - some directors hire you, then kind of try to mold you - which is ridiculous. I'm hired because of 15 years in this industry and 30-odd movies, so I know what I'm bringing to the table. And John lets you do it - and if he does have anything for direction, he does it in such a tactful and easy way that you don't even know that he's got you there. It's like a cat with a bit of tinfoil, it's beautiful.

On the film release being delayed almost a year:
Doesn't bother me at all, mate. All you want is for the movie to get out and go to an audience and for them to get their money's worth, that's my job. The delay is probably more upsetting to someone like John, who's very proud of his work. To me, you just keep motoring and hope that one day it gets to see the light of day.

What's going on with Avatar 2 and 3:
Jim's told me the idea for it, for two and three, and it's fucking huge, like immense. (laughs) I think it's the plan to shoot both together, because then everything's in place. But it's massive. At the moment, he's doing a lot of other things, but he's also writing a bible to sort of get himself back into that world. But it is monumental and he's not going to start it until he knows he can push the envelope again.

Did he know what he was getting into and how big Avatar was going to be before he saw it?
Not even when you're seeing it. I remember, when we were flying to Russia to promote it, and we'd all seen it, but only the family had seen it, and Jim was always adamant saying, look, science fiction movies don't do very well, the last movie I did was the biggest fucking movie of all time, but because of that, I've got a large target on my back, so just be prepared for anything. And there's a difference between being successful or even Harry Potter successful or an anomaly like Avatar, which, when you look at the figures, it's out there. And the speed that it made its money...and making its money just means that people were going to see it, so it's not just people seeing it once, it's two, three, four, five times...I mean, they're naming a fucking mountain in Japan after it. (laughs) It's a fucking phenomenon that you can't a) prepare for and b) can't understand while it's happening. Jim kind of let us be part of the process all the way - he's very nice and generous like that. The first time we watched it with all of the reels put together was the first time that Jim had seen it with all of the reels together, so that was exciting.

On the comparison between something big like Avatar vs. smaller, gritty films like The Debt:
Each movie is its own beast, each movie is its own journey. I don't mind doing green screen work, I don't mind the volume, I don't mind working with nothing, and I don't mind working on smaller movies like this. I kind of grew up on it in Australia - to me, each job has its own challenges and its own joys.

On his new comic series, Damaged, and how that all came about:
Yeah, we're just in the process of trying to get the copies out. It was my two mates, John and Michael Schwartz, kind of came up with this great idea, which is like an older Dirty Harry. It's great, we're getting a lot of interest...I mean, we never made the comic to turn into a movie, that was always other people's ideas on the internet... we just wanted to make a good comic. But now, we're starting to get people looking at it in a new regard, going, hey, like they're sniffing around for their truffles. But it's just in the process of coming out, so now we'll see how it really stands. I mean, you can talk and blow it up any way you want, but if it comes off the shelf and people pay money for it, then you know you've done a good job. If it doesn't, then you've done a crap job, and you move on. It's a good six-series thing, it's very tightly written, and we approached it the same way we'd approach any movie or TV kind of job. Everything was collaborative, and we've always keep on each other's toes.

Would he go back to the Terminator franchise:
If they want me, yeah, a job's a job, mate. (laughs) But no, I liked that job, I like the character. Who knows, I don't know what Justin (Lin)'s going to do with it.

On not having a background in theatre when he got to drama school:
I was a bricklayer, I built houses, that was what I was getting paid to do. In hindsight, I think I got in because I was willing to do anything - it was a case of can you do this, can you do that, here read some Shakespeare... And there were four or five guys like that in my year, which was kind of nice...because they don't know whether you've reached your peak in that audition or if you've got the universe to go. And I think, coming from a place where you don't know one wing of the stage from another, you can go with it. I mean, I wasn't as green as some of the boys - I'd been in a play in primary school to get a girl - but it wasn't my intention to be an actor. Where I grew up, you didn't see your face sixty-foot fucking big, it was ludicrous. And it gets harder every single day, mate. Jim calls it a wall and we're letting things in. You're putting yourself out there, you're battling to kind of solve problems that may not have solutions, but at the same time, it's just fucking entertainment. It's a weird job. I love it.

On choosing his roles:
I choose movies that I would want to go and see. Not necessarily the character that's me or the character that stands out. And some of those movies tend to be big, boisterous blockbusters that require you to man up. Whether I'm like that (those characters) in real life, I don't think is the case, and whether they're the parts that show me off to the best of my ability, I don't think is the case. I just pick by the movie and go on a journey or whatever the character requires.

On the Australian film industry:
It ebbs and flows, and it's been doing that since the '70s. And we had some great films last year and some great actors that're suddenly being recognized over here, which that's great. Once an actor gets recognized here, the cycle continues and the pool of actors comes up in Australia and you work with people like John Madden or Jim, then you go back to your own country and then inject what you've learned from them back in your own country. I'm actually going back next week to work on an Australian movie called Drift.





				THE DEBT Interviews Sam Worthington COVERED BY: BRENDA MEYER LISTEN TO INTERVIEW What kind of emotions is David carrying and does he have survivor's guilt? I think there's a guilt, carrying a weight and a burden, and the ramifications of your actions. Which we always deal with anyway, but in this it's, as you know, hard to keep something like that secret and to live with that for the rest of your life. Can you get away with it, and when it does bite you in the butt, how do you handle it? I talked to Ciarán about it and he says the thing is, [David] becomes more damaged as an older man. See, you can't start off damaged - otherwise there's no arc, but he's definitely got it inside him. Marton's character (Stephen) actually says, this is what's happened to him, you know, with his family, and he holds it in a lot. But you've got to have some sort of idealism as a character (in order) for him to get tainted by what happens, and that leads him down to being more damaged. On how he and Ciarán approached David, and if they worked together and watched each other's performances: Yeah, he watched mine. We didn't talk that much - Tom and Marton talked a lot, but every actor's process is different. Me and Ciarán just met, I said, look, here's how I'm looking at him, he's a ticking time bomb, he's the one that's the quiet one of the group but has the more passion, therefore, when he kind of does what he does to Vogel, that starts him on this downward spiral out. Or, even when they can't get [Vogel] out, can't finish the mission, that's when he spirals out. And that's all we really talked about, and then Ciarán went and watched some rushes and took it from there. And I see little things that Ciarán does that I did that I find fascinating, just, like tiny movements of my head - I've got a very distinct head movement and he can pop it in - and then there's something about his soul that I wanted David to be when he grew up. But you don't ever tell an actor how to play a part, he just did that. On working with Marton and Jessica and shooting the house scenes: I think the way we shot it - me and Marton and Jessica, I think the world of her, I think she's the best actress out there and she's very stage trained, so am I, so is Marton, John Madden's got a background in it, so when we went to shoot the scenes in the house, we actually shot them in order, like on a stage, so it felt like a little play. So, by the time you finished the house stuff, you wanted to get out of there, you were like rats trying to crawl to get out. Also, on the stage, you kind of know what someone's bringing to it, the rehearsal period is longer, so we had a pretty intensive rehearsal period, and you kind of bounce off each other if that's what you're used to. And it's a bit different from film actors - they definitely have a different way of breaking down scripts and breaking down scenes. And John's very clever at utilizing the talents for the part and putting them into the work, so I had a great time working with both of them. On working with Jessica twice now: On The Debt, we're both young lovers - or scared, trying to be young lovers at the beginnings of a blossoming romance, and we became friends outside of that. And in Texas Killing Fields, we're at the end of a relationship, we're divorced, and I thought, we need a film where we actually have a real relationship. (laughs) She's so far advanced. It's not about her, it's about the work, it's about the character. It's not about vanity and how big her damn trailer is or anything like that. She's got a background in theatre - when I met her, she'd worked with Al Pacino, she'd worked with Ralph Fiennes in Coriolanus, she's worked with Terrance Malick. Her knowledge of film is getting broader and bigger. I came in and wanted to learn off her. She's one of these actresses that, whether she means it or not, you want to do better, you don't slack, you don't drop that ball. And I appreciate working with someone that challenges me, where at the end of the day, I'm banging my head against the table going, I wish I could have done better. Because that's how good she is. *On learning Krav Maga:* Yeah, they trained us up on it - I actually find any kind of physical action quite easy, to be honest. But I found it interesting that it's an attack form of defense. It's not actually defense - it's like, if five people are going at you, you hit for five, and you might get struck in the head about four times, but it doesn't matter. If you're taking on a guy with a knife, chances are, you're gonna get knifed, but the way krav maga is, it's a forward thinking action. So, if you get hit with a knife, it doesn't matter because it means you may be able to take down your opponent. And that, to me, is also a way of kind of how Israelis think - it's a forward way of thinking, there's no defense. What they believe in, they believe it's correct, and they go straight for it. So, I kind of found that kind of parallel interesting. On filming in Budapest: It's the seventh time I've been to Budapest, but I like it. It's like a bigger Prague. But whereas Prague has been untouched, Budapest is now starting to get a Western influence. And it's freakin' cold. (laughs) On how he got the part: I was doing Terminator at the time in Albuquerque in the middle of nowhere, and John flew all the way out there to talk to me, and I thought that any man that's willing to fly to fucking Albuquerque, I said, I'll sign on, I don't care what it is. (laughs) But he gave a really nice sell and he's an eloquent man. He's a great storyteller, his work is quite diverse, which I find interesting. That was quite an easy sell, he said, this is what I want you to do, I want you to be a part of it, whaddaya reckon and I said why not. *On if he was familiar with the original Israeli film, Ha-Hov, before shooting:* I'd actually watched it before - before the remake [idea] had even come to life - so I'd seen it already. But I didn't go and read into it. I thought...there's bits in the original movie that are a bit...the performances are a bit...it's not as complex. It's: David is this person, Stephen is this person, so you know...some movies you might kind of revisit to get influenced by, others might taint what you want to do, so I stayed away from it. There's some gaping plot holes in the original which we found that you just ratchet and tighten - like, what was David doing for 30 years, that was my first question. Was he just sitting and crying in a room for 30 years? I thought he should go and look for the dude, so we put that into the script, having that character actually try to find Vogel. On how they prepared for the scenes with Vogel: You just come in knowing what you're doing with someone like Jesper. And John said to me, what are you thinking, and I told him, and he said, just keep it contained, keep it really contained. Don't do fuck all, basically. Just keep it in there, whatever you're feeling, whatever this guy is attacking you with, don't move a muscle. Because you do stoic better than any other fucking actor, so we'd like to exploit it and not see you get burned for it, for once, which I commended. On working with Jesper Christensen: He's got that very Danish background like (Clash of the Titans co-star) Mads Mikkelson where he'll get real Method on you. There's a different type of Method where you're sitting there covered in porridge and sitting in your own urine, it's not something I'm really prone to doing, but if it helps Jesper, it helps Jesper. But he's a great guy. You don't really stay in character, but you find that any kind of character permeates through you, so by the time it came time to leave the house to go to Budapest, we were ready to knock the whole place down, which kind of helps. It was kind of claustrophobic. We'd been in there for five weeks, we'd gone from playing happy family to this guy shitting and peeing on the floor. And we had to be in there, so the reactions are true and that's what I liked about it. You wanted out. Biggest struggle with the role: The accent. I always struggle with accents. But that's something you keep at, that's your job and the process. And it's a weird thing, because we're talking a German dialect with an Israeli accent with my Australian accent. We kind of went for a universal sound that's not exactly what it would be, but we tried to make Helen sound the same as Jessica and me sound the same as Marton. On fighting Holocaust fatigue in movies, and how this one's different: I don't think it hammers you over the head. It's just a taut thriller, that's what it is, and also about the repercussions of your actions. Whether it was a Nazi war criminal or an African drug lord criminal or any kind of event that ripples through your life, that's what we're aiming for and I don't think we've said this is a Holocaust revenge movie. To me, it's like a 1970s thriller. On making films for an adult audience: I don't think about it. I look at a movie - whether it's Avatar or The Debt - and think hopefully it finds an audience. I'm not thinking on if it goes for 15 year-old kids or a 45 year-old man. I'm thinking hopefully this is a good story. On what he's learned from John Madden: He has an ease with direction. He lets you do your work, he trusts you. He's hired you for a reason - some directors hire you, then kind of try to mold you - which is ridiculous. I'm hired because of 15 years in this industry and 30-odd movies, so I know what I'm bringing to the table. And John lets you do it - and if he does have anything for direction, he does it in such a tactful and easy way that you don't even know that he's got you there. It's like a cat with a bit of tinfoil, it's beautiful. On the film release being delayed almost a year: Doesn't bother me at all, mate. All you want is for the movie to get out and go to an audience and for them to get their money's worth, that's my job. The delay is probably more upsetting to someone like John, who's very proud of his work. To me, you just keep motoring and hope that one day it gets to see the light of day. *What's going on with Avatar* 2 and 3: Jim's told me the idea for it, for two and three, and it's fucking huge, like immense. (laughs) I think it's the plan to shoot both together, because then everything's in place. But it's massive. At the moment, he's doing a lot of other things, but he's also writing a bible to sort of get himself back into that world. But it is monumental and he's not going to start it until he knows he can push the envelope again. Did he know what he was getting into and how big Avatar was going to be before he saw it?** Not even when you're seeing it. I remember, when we were flying to Russia to promote it, and we'd all seen it, but only the family had seen it, and Jim was always adamant saying, look, science fiction movies don't do very well, the last movie I did was the biggest fucking movie of all time, but because of that, I've got a large target on my back, so just be prepared for anything. And there's a difference between being successful or even Harry Potter successful or an anomaly like Avatar, which, when you look at the figures, it's out there. And the speed that it made its money...and making its money just means that people were going to see it, so it's not just people seeing it once, it's two, three, four, five times...I mean, they're naming a fucking mountain in Japan after it. (laughs) It's a fucking phenomenon that you can't a) prepare for and b) can't understand while it's happening. Jim kind of let us be part of the process all the way - he's very nice and generous like that. The first time we watched it with all of the reels put together was the first time that Jim had seen it with all of the reels together, so that was exciting. *On the comparison between something big like Avatar* vs. smaller, gritty films like The Debt: Each movie is its own beast, each movie is its own journey. I don't mind doing green screen work, I don't mind the volume, I don't mind working with nothing, and I don't mind working on smaller movies like this. I kind of grew up on it in Australia - to me, each job has its own challenges and its own joys. On his new comic series, Damaged, and how that all came about: Yeah, we're just in the process of trying to get the copies out. It was my two mates, John and Michael Schwartz, kind of came up with this great idea, which is like an older Dirty Harry. It's great, we're getting a lot of interest...I mean, we never made the comic to turn into a movie, that was always other people's ideas on the internet... we just wanted to make a good comic. But now, we're starting to get people looking at it in a new regard, going, hey, like they're sniffing around for their truffles. But it's just in the process of coming out, so now we'll see how it really stands. I mean, you can talk and blow it up any way you want, but if it comes off the shelf and people pay money for it, then you know you've done a good job. If it doesn't, then you've done a crap job, and you move on. It's a good six-series thing, it's very tightly written, and we approached it the same way we'd approach any movie or TV kind of job. Everything was collaborative, and we've always keep on each other's toes. Would he go back to the Terminator franchise: If they want me, yeah, a job's a job, mate. (laughs) But no, I liked that job, I like the character. Who knows, I don't know what Justin (Lin)'s going to do with it. On not having a background in theatre when he got to drama school: I was a bricklayer, I built houses, that was what I was getting paid to do. In hindsight, I think I got in because I was willing to do anything - it was a case of can you do this, can you do that, here read some Shakespeare... And there were four or five guys like that in my year, which was kind of nice...because they don't know whether you've reached your peak in that audition or if you've got the universe to go. And I think, coming from a place where you don't know one wing of the stage from another, you can go with it. I mean, I wasn't as green as some of the boys - I'd been in a play in primary school to get a girl - but it wasn't my intention to be an actor. Where I grew up, you didn't see your face sixty-foot fucking big, it was ludicrous. And it gets harder every single day, mate. Jim calls it a wall and we're letting things in. You're putting yourself out there, you're battling to kind of solve problems that may not have solutions, but at the same time, it's just fucking entertainment. It's a weird job. I love it. On choosing his roles: I choose movies that I would want to go and see. Not necessarily the character that's me or the character that stands out. And some of those movies tend to be big, boisterous blockbusters that require you to man up. Whether I'm like that (those characters) in real life, I don't think is the case, and whether they're the parts that show me off to the best of my ability, I don't think is the case. I just pick by the movie and go on a journey or whatever the character requires. On the Australian film industry:** It ebbs and flows, and it's been doing that since the '70s. And we had some great films last year and some great actors that're suddenly being recognized over here, which that's great. Once an actor gets recognized here, the cycle continues and the pool of actors comes up in Australia and you work with people like John Madden or Jim, then you go back to your own country and then inject what you've learned from them back in your own country. I'm actually going back next week to work on an Australian movie called Drift.


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